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Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1234	Posted - 2013.06.28 19:24:00 - [1] - Quote I noticed that when people talk about the flaylock pistol, there are three groups of people that either say it's OP/It's fine/Not sure. It's almost always Gallente who say it's overpowered. It's almost always Caldari/Minmatar who say it's fine. It's almost always Amarr who are on the fence. And why is that ladies and gentlemen? Because the flaylock is designed to punish an already weak and inferior tank type - armor. (Used by Gallente and half used by amarr) For further reading about armor < shields, refer to here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87752 Through tests I have found that the flaylock does 135%~ damage to armor (Sometimes it was 130%, sometimes it was 140%). If you crunch the numbers, with the damage skill maxed out, you pump out more than 300 damage against armor per shot. The flaylock fires fast, and reloads fast, you can pump out a full clip, 3 shots, in a second~. That means 900 damage in a second. (For comparsion, an AR does 400~ depending on skills and damage mods) And after *2.5* seconds, you can pump out 900 more damage! Even the tankiest of armor suits can't handle this, and it's more than any other weapon DPS wise. And no, the scrambler rifle isn't a good comparison, as it does 120% to shields and doesn't have nearly the same DPS. It also doesn't have the biggest problem with the flaylock.... And the biggest problem? It has a SPLASH RADIUS. And why is that a problem? Because if you use complex plates on your Gallente suit, you are most likely moving at the speed of a heavy. And tell me, did you ever have a problem hitting a heavy? So let me get this straight. You make a weapon designed to destroy the slowest suits, and you give it SPLASH RADIUS? Are you nuts CCP? Before you make a weapon to counter armor,FIX ARMOR! -Cat Merc, the forum cat
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1235	Posted - 2013.06.28 20:06:00 - [2] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So let me get this straight. You make a weapon designed to destroy the slowest and weakest suits, and you give it SPLASH RADIUS? Are you nuts CCP? Before you make a weapon to counter armor,FIX ARMOR! Classic DUST Indeed.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1239	Posted - 2013.06.28 20:45:00 - [3] - Quote Meow
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1241	Posted - 2013.06.28 21:33:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The only problem is that it is better than the MD. Buff the MD. While they are on that, buff the Laser rifle. So basically, nerf armor even harder? Gotchya
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1242	Posted - 2013.06.28 22:02:00 - [5] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I noticed that when people talk about the flaylock pistol, there are three groups of people that either say it's OP/It's fine/Not sure. It's almost always Gallente who say it's overpowered. It's almost always Caldari/Minmatar who say it's fine. It's almost always Amarr who are on the fence. And why is that ladies and gentlemen? Because the flaylock is designed to punish an already weak and inferior tank type - armor. (Used by Gallente and half used by amarr) For further reading about armor < shields, refer to here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87752 Through tests I have found that the flaylock does 135%~ damage to armor (Sometimes it was 130%, sometimes it was 140%), and does 70% damage to shields. If you crunch the numbers, with the damage skill maxed out, you pump out more than 300 damage against armor per shot. 300 SPLASH DAMAGE (If it was direct I would be fine with it) The flaylock fires fast, reloads fast, you can pump out a full clip, 3 shots, in a second~. That means 900 damage in a second. (For comparsion, an AR does 400~ depending on skills and damage mods) And after *2.5* seconds, you can pump out 900 more damage! Even the tankiest of armor suits can't handle this, and it's more than any other weapon DPS wise. And no, the scrambler rifle isn't a good comparison, as it does 120% to shields and doesn't have nearly the same DPS. It also doesn't have the biggest problem with the flaylock.... And what's the biggest problem? It has a SPLASH RADIUS. And why is that a problem? Because if you use complex plates on your Gallente suit, you are most likely moving at the speed of a heavy. And tell me, did you ever have a problem hitting a heavy? So let me get this straight. You make a weapon designed to destroy the slowest and weakest suits, and you give it SPLASH RADIUS? Are you nuts CCP? Before you make a weapon to counter armor,FIX ARMOR! -Cat Merc, the forum cat Question: how do you know what type of suits people wear? Curious because I wear Caldari, but am Minmater. I imagine most people use a suit other than their race type. It's not that common actually. I actually went around and questioned people, most of them replied that their race is the same as the suit.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1259	Posted - 2013.06.29 10:22:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The only problem is that it is better than the MD. Buff the MD. While they are on that, buff the Laser rifle. Confirming that we need high powered splash damage weapons which do ludicrous amounts of damage to the slowest and weakest tank but laughable amounts to the strongest tank. The sarcasm level is OVER 9000!
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1272	Posted - 2013.06.29 16:51:00 - [7] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Flaylock fires 3 shots in about 2 seconds, not exactly 2 seconds, but there is no way in hell its one second. I agree that armor is the problem, but I don't think the flaylock itself is OP. I'm now scared that shield tankers will start screaming my scrambler rifle is OP because it does high shield damage, but ignore the fact that it does low armor damage. I use an Amarr logi suit. Did some calculations. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90366&find=unread KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: All stats are from prototype level Ranges found here [Comparison] Flaylock pistol Damage per shot: direct 239.8 / splash 214.5 Damage per second (DPS): 3 shots fired in about 2 seconds(used stopwatch), direct 359.7 / splash 321.75 Damage per mag: direct 719.4 / splash 643.5 Range: 60 m? (only the 'Splashbone' was checked) Scrambler pistol Damage per shot: 88 DPS: 733.33 (and that's not even with the crazy awesome headshot multiplier) Damage per mag: (+5 shots per magazine size skill bonus factored) 968 Range: around 61 m SMG Damage per shot: 25.3 DPS: 421.66 Damage per mag: 2024 Range: 44 m [Conclusion] The prototype flaylock pistol's DPS pales in comparison by hundreds of points, even with direct damage. The damage per magazine is also underwhelming, meaning it can kill less people with just one magazine in comparison to the other sidearms. What the flaylock pistol gets is splash (2.5 meters with maxed out operation skill), which makes it much easier to damage targets since just landing hits close to them does the job; this advantage however is in exchange for DPS. Basically the flaylock is more likely to do damage because of splash, but has much lower damage per second as a tradeoff. Seems fair to me. I really hope it isn't nerfed in 1.2 because I think its pretty balanced. A modest reduction in splash damage might be needed if there really are problems. /me activates flame shield. I was expecting it to come out OP, and even started typing ideas on a reasonable nerf, but I was surprised by the results. The game behaves weird when using the flaylock. You can't just spam the trigger to get maximum fire rate, there is a rythem you must learn to get maximum fire rate. It's weird like that. A second is the best time I got using it, but it's rare. I mostly get it in about 1.5 seconds. Also, you fail to remember the ease of use, with the other sidearms you need to hit directly the person, with this weapon just aim in the general direction of their feet.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1272	Posted - 2013.06.29 17:59:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Flaylock fires 3 shots in about 2 seconds, not exactly 2 seconds, but there is no way in hell its one second. I agree that armor is the problem, but I don't think the flaylock itself is OP. I'm now scared that shield tankers will start screaming my scrambler rifle is OP because it does high shield damage, but ignore the fact that it does low armor damage. I use an Amarr logi suit. Did some calculations. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90366&find=unread KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: SNIP I was expecting it to come out OP, and even started typing ideas on a reasonable nerf, but I was surprised by the results. That all very well but the scrambler pistol HAS to hit, the flaylock just has to come close. meaning, in a little gun fight, say the scramble misses 2 shots, lands 3, we have 264 damage done, at the same ratio(flaylock misses one, no splash either, lands 2) of the flay does 479.6, even close misses would land 429. So DPS is great n all but its based around each shot hiting, this aint the case in reality Indeed. The AR can kill most people in less than 10 shots, but most of the time you need more than that. Human error brings down the DPS of the weapon.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1272	Posted - 2013.06.29 18:52:00 - [9] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I noticed that when people talk about the flaylock pistol, there are three groups of people that either say it's OP/It's fine/Not sure. It's almost always Gallente who say it's overpowered. It's almost always Caldari/Minmatar who say it's fine. It's almost always Amarr who are on the fence. And why is that ladies and gentlemen? Because the flaylock is designed to punish an already weak and inferior tank type - armor. (Used by Gallente and half used by amarr) For further reading about armor < shields, refer to here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87752 Through tests I have found that the flaylock does 135%~ damage to armor (Sometimes it was 130%, sometimes it was 140%), and does 70% damage to shields. If you crunch the numbers, with the damage skill maxed out, you pump out more than 300 damage against armor per shot. 300 SPLASH DAMAGE (If it was direct I would be fine with it) The flaylock fires fast, reloads fast, you can pump out a full clip, 3 shots, in a second~. That means 900 damage in a second. (For comparsion, an AR does 400~ depending on skills and damage mods) And after *2.5* seconds, you can pump out 900 more damage! Even the tankiest of armor suits can't handle this, and it's more than any other weapon DPS wise. And no, the scrambler rifle isn't a good comparison, as it does 120% to shields and doesn't have nearly the same DPS. It also doesn't have the biggest problem with the flaylock.... And what's the biggest problem? It has a SPLASH RADIUS. And why is that a problem? Because if you use complex plates on your Gallente suit, you are most likely moving at the speed of a heavy. And tell me, did you ever have a problem hitting a heavy? So let me get this straight. You make a weapon designed to destroy the slowest and weakest suits, and you give it SPLASH RADIUS? Are you nuts CCP? Before you make a weapon to counter armor,FIX ARMOR! -Cat Merc, the forum cat Question: how do you know what type of suits people wear? Curious because I wear Caldari, but am Minmater. I imagine most people use a suit other than their race type. It's not that common actually. I actually went around and questioned people, most of them replied that their race is the same as the suit. I'm Gallente and run Caldari suits.I would venture to guess that most people's race and suit's aren't the same. You guess, I gather data. 80% of the people I questioned said that their race and suit are the same.

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